Prince Harry In The Garden State


He will tour areas hit hardest by Hurricane Sandy with the Governor, The Hon. Chris Christie, and see the efforts and recovery and rebuilding. I’ve never liked the custom of the British royals of having everyone use the royal arms differenced only by various forms of a label. In addition, the royal arms really should have had an escutcheon in pretense of the Duchy of Saxony added but the heralds decided against that.

12 thoughts on “Prince Harry In The Garden State

    1. guyselvester Post author

      Because they are the chief executive of a sovereign state. American states aren’t provinces. This is a Republic composed if a federation of 50 sovereign states.

      1. patrick walesby

        Thank you for that. So does that mean a sovereign state could claim, who become independant of the other states ?? and then the Govenor becomes head of state?? or is that being silly!! sorry for asking. But I alwasy get confused when people are called The Hon. and not children of Peer of GB.
        Even Judges in the USA are called “Hon” is that correct??

        thank you

      2. guyselvester Post author

        American Governors already ARE heads of state. The US is composed of 50 sovereign states who are federated into a single Federal Republic. However, they cannot simply secede from the Union (we fought a war over that). As for the use of the title “Honorable” it’s good to remember that despite the fact that we speak the same language (sort of) the use of titles and forms of address here has nothing to do with what they may be in Britain. Separate countries have separate customs. Yes, judges in the US and mayors as well are addressed as “your honor”.

  1. Perpignan

    You know how we Brits hate tinkering with tradition and differencing of arms is already a real rarity in England. Not so in Scotland of course. There were good non-heraldic reasons for breaking all German links in 1914 and Saxony and Hanover heraldry were caught up in it. But I hope that the fleeting presence of Harry Wales in the Garden State is some kind of compensation. We, your friends, drank to your health in his home principality yesterday.

    1. Perpignan

      What does my head in is lady lawyers in the USA that I have to call Esquire : now how did we get to that ?

  2. Ryan

    I think you are mistaken about the escutcheon in pretense. Forgeting that the British “Duke of Saxony” both renounced and were deprived of their title, but Prince Harry is paternally descended from the Royal House of Greece and Denmark/The Duke of Edinburgh. There are several options for an escutcheon in pretense that could be utilized for Prince Harry, but Saxony is not one of them. Also, I think the decision came from above the herald’s head

    1. guyselvester Post author

      His royal descent through his grandmother trumps his descent through his grandfather because, in this case, it is the female (his grandmother) who is a sovereign. But, as was already pointed out WWI saw to it that all ties to the German titles were renounced.

      1. Ryan

        But the Saxon shield comes ultimately from Prince Albert. So theoretically, if they had not changed the tradition in response to WWI, Queen Elizabeth children would have used their the Duke of Edinburgh’s arms

  3. guyselvester Post author

    I’m not saying Harry’s arms should have the escutcheon in pretense of Saxony because they are Harry’s arms. I’m saying the royal arms themselves should have had this added but never did. Then Charles’ arms could have been marshaled as those of both his parents with a label and Harry’s could then have been marshaled accordingly to include his mother’s, etc. But, as I have noted already the rules for the heraldry of British royals IS DIFFERENT and does not follow the customs used for everyone else by the English & Scottish heralds.

    1. Charles von Hamm

      The arms of the sovereign have *never* contained dynastic escutcheons unless the sovereign his- or herself was a sovereign of the state represented by the inescutcheon (for example, William III and his inescutcheon of Nassau). Therefore, Her present Majesty would not bear Saxony as an inescutcheon as she is not a reigning duchess of Saxony.

      The arms of British princes and princesses have never contained quarters representing titles to which they have no personal claim.

      If one had to choose an inescutcheon for Prince Henry, it would be Greece, or Greece with a further inescutcheon of Denmark.


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